Starter abnormality

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:07 am

Happy New Year to all.
I have an abnormality with my rebuilt starter. At times it just spins without engaging the flywheel. Once it gets to that point, I'd rotate the engine anti-clockwise and that does it.
Unfortunately, I just can't open the solenoid...but still doesn't add up...the starter motor spins.... Anybody have any clue what's going on before I get a replacement starter??

usbubba · Post by **usbubba** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:11 pm

Most likely your flywheel has some missing (ground off) teeth. This happens when you try to engage the starter when the engine is already running (ouch--a lot of grinding). When you roll the car (in gear), you turn the flywheel to a spot that HAS teeth and the starter works again. Only fix is to replace the flywheel with a good one.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:39 pm

Hi Usbubba!

Thanks for the feedback. The flywheel has teeth but the problem is of the same nature- my starter clutch is what has worn out teeth as a result of grinding that's been happening due to a loose fit within the starter. Unfortunately all the parts of the starter still have me mixed...so I can't quite yet explain in detail.
Thanks. I'll replace the starter or see before the damage transfers onto the flywheel (hoping the effect didn't fade its teeth as well).

Blue Baron · Post by **Blue Baron** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:09 am

Check the condition of the starter bushing in the bellhousing.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:18 am

Hi Blue Baron.
The bushing was wanting but the root problem is on the bendix, a washer that places it into position onto the solenoid fork, one side was broken....thus the bendix wouldn't keep steady.
That has resulted to the starter crutch grinding and wouldn't engage the flywheel.
I have to get a replacement...though was asking around if there are engineers who can replace the starter clutch....getting an old-model starter this end is close to a needle in the haystack.
Thanks.
Coming to think about it, probably the bushing was the root cause.... Amazing lessons I'm learning through this bug....

Blue Baron · Post by **Blue Baron** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:19 am

A starter from an automatic Beetle (the self-supporting type) would solve all problems because it eliminates the bushing altogether, but this would be even harder to find.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:17 am

Hey BB,

make me understand you right... Are you talking about the new model beetles or an old model beetle that had auto-drive??
Either case might seem really hard (especially the former).
Cheers

darzoom · Post by **darzoom** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:18 am

The auto stick shift transaxle housing was shaped differently that the standard clutch transaxle for the old beetles. The case was kind of square at the outer edge (having a flange about 2-3 inches toward the front of the car then rounding back off) to make room for the torque converter and clutch assembly as opposed to the clutch model transaxle which is rounded almso from the starting edgo of the engine/trans mating surface. The auto stick shift starter will not fit in the clutch transaxle unless you want to modify the clutch transaxle case to accomidate the auto stick shift starter. That might be a fun project.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:25 am

Dazoom
i like your parting remark.....might be a fun project.
I'd rather leave matters stock for now...and glad to say I've gotten a few contacts with 2nd hand pieces and a shop with new ones.....though at a kill-price (I wouldn't mind facing so long as I get a perfect fit and get the bug up).
Thanks.
For learning purposes, feed me with more info on what exactly I need for task as per your solution!

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:30 am

Darzoom

you sure that's a project??? Modifying the tranny???
I wouldn't make that move personally.

darzoom · Post by **darzoom** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:04 am

I would not modif either. Just stating the obvious that it could be done as it seems many are literal.

darzoom · Post by **darzoom** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:18 am

I had a simular issue and the solenoid was bad and I replaced and it fixed the issue of intermitiment solenoid enguagement. I have also disassembled and cleaned and it also fixed the issue.

Another possible cause may be voltage drop to the starter. The voltage drop happens due to loose connections on old wiring. I have found it to be as simple as replacing the connector at the light switch. The light switch is the main point all power from the fuse block to the starter. Check this first.

If that did not fix the issue, it can be solved by adding a universal solenoid switch mounted in line with a 6 Volt VW starter.

Other than broken teeth as previously stated, the above are possible solutions to the issue.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:24 am

Hey Darzoom,

Thanks for the picture... I now get what you mean by the 2-3 inch flange.
Also good seeing a pic of an auto transmission... were this models in large no? I'd love to see one.

Thanks.

darzoom · Post by **darzoom** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:30 am

I owned a 1968 model that wa the first year it was introduced. They produced it until 1976. It was orginally a Porsche design (Tiptronic) that was adapted for the VW and was also used in VW commerical vehicles in Europe.

It was an interesting design with a 3 speed true gear box unlike other automatic transmissions that used bands and drums and were acturated with hydralic pressure. The Autostick had a torque converter and a true clutch and pressure plate. The torque converter allowed the slip to get moving. The clutch was activated by a vacum booster that was triggered by points at the bottom of the shifter that enguaged the clutch to allow the gears to change. It was not a fluid drive like traditional automatics.

I am not sure on how many were produced.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:50 am

good to know...
Most definitely interesting mechanics...but wonder why so few. Anyways...

The 1966 VW Beetle Forum