removing engine

[fatalifeaten]

In your photo, the brass cylinder is the idle cutoff solenoid for the carburetor. The other red lead there should go to the choke on the carb.

When you say it won't start, can you elaborate on what it's doing? Is it turning over and just not starting? Is it not even turning over? Will it start but then die immediately?

[brentsmith]

Hi. Thanks for responding.

It sounds like it's turning over and not starting.

Here's the bad news: I thought I may have blown a fuse (maybe the fuel pump fuse), so I was about to jack up the car. To my surprise, there was about a quart of brand new oil beneath the car on the driver's side. I looked and saw a 1/4 inch wide by 1/2 inch long (approximately) hole just to the driver's side of the oil pan (right beneath where the pistons are). My initial thought was that it was damage from the jack slipping at one point. Then I thought that I might have thrown a rod, which may have made the hole.

I was under the car replacing a section of fuel line just after putting in the oil and no oil came out then. Had the hole been there at that time, would the oil have come through it, or would it have taken my trying to start the car to make the oil flow? Again, it's just over 2.5 quarts in the engine, but only a quart or less on the floor. Is it possible that I just didn't notice the hole earlier, or do you think I threw a rod? Could I have thrown a rod by just trying to start the car? From what I can tell, the oil didn't come out until I tried starting the car. Would I not have heard it if the engine had thrown a rod?

Since welding is out, I'm thinking about patching the hole with JB Weld and a bit of the tape that mufflers are repaired with. I'm new to this, so any suggestions would be great.

[brentsmith]

It's not starting at all. It's not starting and then dying. It just tries to turn over but never does. All I hear is that starter noise of arrara arrara arrara arrara. Of course, I tried it so many times that it ran my battery down (which took an amazingly short time, by the way).

[brentsmith]

If I didn't have it hooked to the choke on the carb, could that cause it to not start?

[brentsmith]

It didn't take long to figure out that I would have heard a rod being thrown, most likely. What I think I'm going to try is patching it with the JB Weld and muffler repair tape. I'll look for a repair kit for aluminum to see if there is something more suited for the task.

What I'm wondering is what happened to the piece that was punched out of where the hole is now. If there is a nickel-sized piece of aluminum in the engine, I don't really want to seal it up inside. Something tells me that it's not so heavy enough to just stay on the bottom and not circulate through the engine on a search and destroy mission. I wonder if there is a way to get it out without once again pulling the engine and splitting it. Perhaps buying a few quarts of oil and pouring them through the engine - catching it in a clean bucket underneath until the piece washes out?

[fatalifeaten]

If you have a hole in the case, you have 2 options.

1. Junk it and get another.

2. Break it down, take it to a machine shop that specialized in VW's and have it tanked, baked, and tig welded. Oil will seep into every pore and will make JB welding it more or less pointless.

I'm not sure what the market's like around your neck of the woods, but in Phx I can get a case from a machinist ready to assemble for about 375 bucks. You're probably looking at 200- 250 or more to have yours repaired based on your description. All things being equal, I wouldn't even try to mess with it if it's holed. Just get another one and rebuild.

Thinking about this for a second, is the hole on the bottom of the case or the side just under the cylinders? I believe the case has a natural cavity there. Probe it with a screwdriver and see if it's got a back end or really goes all the way through. Spray some carb cleaner in there and clean it out really well, then see if you get more oil coming from it.

There's a second part to this as well. Did you replace the oil cooler seals on top of the engine under the fan shroud?If so, did you use the correct seals for your engine? There are at least 4 different sets depending on your case, cooler, and adapter. If you got the wrong ones in there it will leak down between number 3 and 4 on the driver side and make a big mess. Chase that oil trail and see where it's really coming from.

[brentsmith]

Yes, I did replace the oil cooler seals. It's quite possible that the ones I used were the wrong ones.

The hole may have to be probed, as it is under the cylinders. I was talking to a friend of mine, and he suggested that I may have simply cracked the block there instead of putting a hole in it (which would be why I never saw the hole before). When I tried to start the car, it's possible that, when the engine was pressurized, the crack couldn't take the pressure and blew the small hole in it.

I did notice that there was oil running down the side of the case near the back of the car on the driver's side. Maybe the oil cooler seals?

If it is indeed a hole in the block and not just the cavity you spoke of, I found this: http://www.smooth-on.com/Epoxy,-Silicon ... index.html It's a bit more expensive than JB Weld, and the instructions I found for repairing a cracked oil pan say to get some of this stuff and a piece of aluminum large enough to cover the hole, sand around the hole with 200 grain sandpaper, and epoxy the patch on. If that would work for an oil pan, wouldn't it work for a hole right next to the oil pan?

Next chance I get, I'll have an adult help me (and not my 13-year-old son) to drop the engine and put my old oil cooler seals back in. They seemed to still be in good shape. Perhaps that's the culprit after all.

Thanks!

[brentsmith]

I just read your post again. The hole is definitely on the bottom, and not on the side.

[brentsmith]

There is NO HOLE in the engine! I got to looking at the hole I thought I had knocked in the engine. The edges and curved end were just too perfect to have been made accidentally. Then I shifted a little and caught a glint of light. I was peering straight up through the hole, through the top of the engine, and was seeing daylight!!! Yesssss!

I unbolted the engine and removed the hood and hinge brackets, and pulled the engine away from the car just enough for the fan shroud to clear and took it off. I got the oil cooler off and there was the mess! It was the new seals I had installed all along! No doubt about it. I just went ahead and put the old seals back on, since new ones were going to take a while getting here. These looked like they still had life in them, and will for sure work better than the wrong ones did. In the process of all this, I finally found where on the carb to plug in the wire for the auto choke.

I should be able to get everything buttoned up and running this afternoon after church.

Now for a slightly different dilemma: Heating and defrosting. I'm attaching a photo of part of the engine. Note how the fan shroud has that curved part where the end is sealed, and the round plate below and just in front of it (the one that's screwed on). In order for me to have heat, it looks like all I need to do is to run some sort of tubing from the fan shroud (having somehow opened that seal), through the holes that are covered by those plates, and connect them to the open ports that appear to be running to the heater and defroster vents that are under the car on either side about halfway up. Sorry for the run-on sentence. I have the vents in place, as well as the controller switches on either side of the emergency brake handle between the front seats. Would breaking that seal and running the hoses be enough to bring the heat from the engine's oil to the cabin? If so, what sort of hoses do I need to get, and how would they connect to the fan shroud? Thanks!

[fatalifeaten]

Ok, so the shroud is capped and so is your breast plate tin. You are correct in that you will need to uncap the shroud and route flex conduit from it, through the breast plate tin, and to the top of your heater boxes (heat exchangers). If you don't have heater boxes, (IE you have just J-tubes and an aftermarket exhaust) then you're not gonna get heating and defrosting from the engine unfortunately. You can't just run the conduit from the shroud to your heater inlets, that's a great way to get carbon monoxide poisoning. The heater boxes are heat exchangers and designed to get warm engine air into the cabin without the dangerous fumes.

Those caps should just be tapped in and set with sheet metal screws. unscrew them, and they'll probably pop right out. If not, try drilling another sheet metal screw into the center of them and using it to pry them out.

if you look at the photo in this link:
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw-air-co ... -8744.html

the heater boxes are the grayed out things. you need some for what you want to do.

[brentsmith]

Oh, yeah. CO2. Duh. LOL

Thanks!

[brentsmith]

Yeah, that shouldn't have had a "2" on it.

Anyway, The engine is running again. Took putting a little gas in the carb. Bad news is that the engine is still pouring out oil from the driver's side. It runs for maybe a minute before the oil begins to ooze down from above. I figure it's the old oil cooler seals that I put back in. They're not working any better than the wrong kind I put in.

At least, that's what I hope it is. I'll find out when the new seals come in from the store. Maybe NAPA will have some where O'Reilly doesn't. I just dread having to do all the work again! Oh, well. It'll be worth it when it finally works.

I think I'll get some heat boxes and get whoever builds the new exhaust system to install them. This thing needs a new system badly!

[Blue Baron]

I wouldn't even know where to begin.

So I won't.

[brentsmith]

So, fatalifeaten, if I provide my own heat exchangers, how much do you think the total would be to have them installed, and also a new muffler and exhaust at the same time? I know we live in different parts of the country, but I'm just looking for a ballpark. Could I get it done for $500.00 or less, or am I dreaming?

Also, I found the oil cooler seals I need (hopefully) on Amazon. They should be in soon. I'm buying a new fuel filter and air cleaner today, along with new bulbs for the turn signals. I'm hoping that will fix the problem of not having brake lights or turn signals without any rewiring. I discovered today that someone along the way painted the car and painted over the license plate light in the process! I found a lens on eBay, but since the light wasn't wired up when I bought the car, I don't know if it works or not. I'll do some testing to see what I have. Of course, if the parts store has one, and it doesn't cost too much, I'll just get it.

What do you think of this gasket maker that I've been hearing about? Have you used it, and do you think it would help shore up my oil cooler seals?

Thanks!

[fatalifeaten]

So, fatalifeaten, if I provide my own heat exchangers, how much do you think the total would be to have them installed, and also a new muffler and exhaust at the same time? I know we live in different parts of the country, but I'm just looking for a ballpark. Could I get it done for $500.00 or less, or am I dreaming?

You just pulled your engine. That's WAY more complicated than installing the heater boxes and exhaust. Why not just do it yourself? If you have the parts all you'd need are the gaskets and flex conduits, and some time. Get the idiot book (How to Keep your Volkswagen Alive by John Muir), and you're into the whole thing less than a hundred bucks plus a couple hours of your time. pocket that extra 400 for other work on the car or dinner and a movie with someone special. We are talking 4 nuts per head, some muffler clamps, gaskets, and a couple of hose clamps for all intents and purposes. Replacing a door knob on a house is more challenging.

If you really want to pay someone else to do it, shop rates generally range between 60 and 90 dollars an hour plus supplies (assuming you provide the parts and they're safe to use). Get a couple of quotes. I would think 250 bucks tops for something this simple.

Also, I found the oil cooler seals I need (hopefully) on Amazon. They should be in soon. I'm buying a new fuel filter and air cleaner today, along with new bulbs for the turn signals. I'm hoping that will fix the problem of not having brake lights or turn signals without any rewiring. I discovered today that someone along the way painted the car and painted over the license plate light in the process! I found a lens on eBay, but since the light wasn't wired up when I bought the car, I don't know if it works or not. I'll do some testing to see what I have. Of course, if the parts store has one, and it doesn't cost too much, I'll just get it.

What do you think of this gasket maker that I've been hearing about? Have you used it, and do you think it would help shore up my oil cooler seals?

Thanks!

I like Yamabond thinly applied where I would consider using a sealer (case halves during assembly for the most part). however, I wouldn't ever put any kind of sealer on the oil cooler seals. The inner passages in your cooler aren't huge to begin with, and the risk of some kind of sealer coming loose and getting up in there to restrict the flow of life-giving oil is just too great. If you have the correct seal set to match your cooler and your case, and you torque them to spec, your leak will stop. you need to make sure that you get the correct ones though. if you use the wrong ones it won't work, as you've discovered.