HARD STARTING

endashaw · Post by **endashaw** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:31 am

MY VW HAVE A HARD STARTING IN THE MORNNING, BUT IT WORKS PROPERLY IN THE DAY TIME. MOST SAYS SOMTHING WRONG WITH THE STARTER AND I HAVE SERVICED IT. DO ANY ONE HAVE A BETTER IDEA TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM? tHANKS.

Blue Baron · Post by **Blue Baron** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:54 pm

First of all, please type in lower case letters.

What do you mean by hard starting? Does it not crank at all? Sounds to me like you might need to add a hard start relay.

ChrisV · Post by **ChrisV** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:26 am

Does the starter not turn over fast enough to get quick start? Maybe needs a more suitable battery to dish out the proper starting juice?

Maybe the starter turns quickly enough but engine refuses to ignite in timely manner? Like dirty plugs or point issue? Needs carb calibration or choke adjustments?

Am not a mechanic, blindly tossing darts here.

My 66 recently started having similar problems. Doesn't want to start or stay running at first. Runs a little funny demanding more gas to keep from dying until warmed up. Adjusting valves, replacing belts, and an oil change did not fix it. Not that I expected it to. Strangely it used to start very easily only a couple months ago and while it was very cold out.

Hope you got it figured out.
-Chris

rokemester · Post by **rokemester** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:17 pm

ChrisV wrote:Does the starter not turn over fast enough to get quick start? Maybe needs a more suitable battery to dish out the proper starting juice?

Maybe the starter turns quickly enough but engine refuses to ignite in timely manner? Like dirty plugs or point issue? Needs carb calibration or choke adjustments?

Am not a mechanic, blindly tossing darts here.

My 66 recently started having similar problems. Doesn't want to start or stay running at first. Runs a little funny demanding more gas to keep from dying until warmed up. Adjusting valves, replacing belts, and an oil change did not fix it. Not that I expected it to. Strangely it used to start very easily only a couple months ago and while it was very cold out.

Hope you got it figured out.
-Chris

I had a very similar problem with my 66 with 1300cc, Solex 30 PICT-1 and 009 mechanical advance distributor. I was trying to keep it running occasionally during the winter. I was able to get it out onto the road when there wasn't much salt. All of a sudden the car became extremely difficult to keep running. Had to apply a lot of gas, got much white smoke. I finally gave up. A couple of weeks ago when it warmed up a bit (live in Northeastern Ohio) I changed the oil and found about 1.5 quarts of fuel in the sump. When I checked the plugs they were pretty well sooted up, dark powder black. I had done an amateur carb rebuild last summer. I suspect the carb was dumping serious amounts of fuel into the sump. The fuel pump seems to be OK. I sent the carb out for a rebuild and I'm replacing the 009 with a stock 205K SVDA distributor. I'll let you know once I get all the pieces parts back if I get the engine running again.

ChrisV · Post by **ChrisV** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:42 pm

Now that points are adjusted, engine fires right up with one pump of the gas pedal (first start of day). Still would like to get fresh Bosch platinum plugs put in and check carb adjustments to be sure its running tip top.

How many times does your engine turn over before it fires? What would be considered normal? Probably temperature dependent? Been about 40-50f lately. This 1600 now fires on the third turn usually and stays running without any extra pedal. Easy fix in my situation.

Edit:
Just realized.. Now when I go in reverse, it sometimes dies without giving it a little gas. Used to be able to just slowly let off the clutch and it would go back without needing gas to prevent stall. Anyone know what change caused this? Otherwise the original posted material above is still true...

Going to get those plugs and carb adjustments tomorrow I think. Hope they won't have to keep my car overnight. Simple job for a good mechanic, right? Maybe check timing too, right?

Feel like I'm hijacking thread. Sorry if so.

ChrisV · Post by **ChrisV** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:36 pm

Tonight after spending a few hours cleaning up all my rusted chrome. Went to start car and it simply would not stay running after the gas from pre-start pedal pump burned, would die quickly without foot on gas. After about 3-4 tries and warming the engine it still died, I gave up.

So, I opened engine compartment and this small rubber cap came tumbling onto the ground. Had no idea what it was or where it went. After standing there in a stupor I saw this little nozzle with heated fumes drifting out. Nozzle is located about the height of carb spring bottom but on other side, the right side of shaft going up to oil bath (nozzle points to the right while standing behind car). So I plugged the hole with that little warn out & cracked looking rubber cap. Now it stays running at idle. Looked in old manual but did not see an explanation to what the nozzle is or why it must be capped. Some sort of vacuum for carb? Can anyone explain?

Also, should I change oil bath oil? Its dark black, but I don't see sludge just by peering onto surface. Holes under filter are not clogged either. Will be getting dusty here as the summer comes. Won't new oil wash the air filter so that I don't need to replace it? Can I use a mix blend oil of SAE 10/30?

ChrisV · Post by **ChrisV** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:07 pm

I wonder if any of the past problems I spoke of had to do with the battery.

Today, my engine tried to turn over (very slowly) maybe once, then the idiot lights began to slowly dim til they went out. The weird thing is only a week ago my old battery tested to the normal voltage of 12.4-12.6

Now I have a new Optima "yellow top" with nearly double the cca, went from 450 to 800. Manufacturer said it would be about 750 in my colder temps.

Any input or personal experience with Optima in your beetle or other car would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Edit:
This Optima yellow is very nice thus far. Car starts the second I engage key. No more strain on the starter, I can no longer count the turns before engine fires. Seems to idle more smoothly and the red dash light for power never comes on at idle. Lights are all brighter as well (cabin light is actually worth using now).

By now I have most certainly stolen this thread. Please forgive me Endashaw.

Blue Baron · Post by **Blue Baron** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:42 am

My head is spinning with all the questions, Chris.

First off, your car must have had the carb replaced with one of the more modern Solex-style replacements, which explains all the little plugged off vacuum lines. The rubber caps that come on these carbs are junk, and deteriorate quickly. Go to the auto parts store and find some better quality caps and plug them all off.

The oil in the air cleaner is just regular engine oil. Remove the air cleaner, take the top off, pour out the old oil, clean the bottom of the cleaner and refill to the red line.

Platinum plus are unnescessary for a Beetle. Simply replace with Bosch Super plugs. best to buy a couple boxes of them for your parts shelf. You can buy them from the new parts vendors in the swap meet at any large VW show. Just this one change alone will improve the way the car runs.

I love Optima batteries, but the yellow top is unnescessary for your Beetle. I use the red top even on the 6 volt cars. The slow cranking is being caused by something mechanical or electrical, and not by a weak battery.

Blue Baron · Post by **Blue Baron** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:48 am

I would also add after glancing your posts again, you need to learn to do your own timing and valve adjustments. John Muir's idiot book ("How to Keep your Volkswagen Alive for the Compleat (sic) Idiot") will show you the ropes. Look for one of the older copies used on eBay, one with the spiral ring binder. I would also urge everyone to get a copy of the Robert Bentley Volkswagen 1200 service manual. I realize our cars are 1300, but the manual still covers almost every aspect of the '66 Beetle, despite the title.

I had never messed with a crank sunroof in my life, but I looked it up in the Bentley manual last week and learned how to adjust the cables and make it shut flush with the roof.

ChrisV · Post by **ChrisV** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:28 pm

Thanks for the reply, got a pack of good rubber caps for the vacuum issue, runs pretty good now. No more slow starts, but the plugs are likely in need of change. Probably should have got the Bosch like you said but instead I got Aldor plugs with thermal reactor, recommended by JCWhitney tech. They said best plugs I could get for my 1600cc bug. Couldn't hurt the engine right?

I watched a video on valve adjustments, just need some tools and it should be easy. Went ahead and cleaned the oil bath. Wow it was caked on thick with grime, took some time to scrape it all out and clean it up nice. Shouldn't have to worry with that for some time.

Blue Baron · Post by **Blue Baron** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:24 pm

My philosophy on plugs is the same as my philosophy on oil. The type you use isn't as important as the frequency of the replacement. I use normal Bosch Super plugs and replace every 5,000 miles. (And change oil every 2,500 with oil rated "SL")

endashaw · Post by **endashaw** » Tue May 04, 2010 7:33 am

Thanks every one!
An electrician have resolved my problem by changing the front and back side spacers of the starter, wiche makes the inner part rotate freely with out touching the cover.
now it works properly all the time.
Endashaw